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Note: Some topics on this page describe certain typical practices, but it is important to note that there are dealers, Extended Warranty Companies, etc. who do not follow the described "procedures", and who would rather lose a few bucks but will keep you as a customer for years to come. It's just amazing that not all understand this "good business practice"... At this time, we are in the process of negotiations with a few dealerships who understand what "customer satisfaction" is, and how we can be of assistance in this area. Once we get positive results, we'll post them on our site.
Use links below to go directly to the item you are interested in.
All vehicles are created equal.
You get what you pay for.
I got ABS - I can stop on a dime.
It's been replaced (or repaired). Now it's like new!
Routine oil changes are not enough… and other maintenance stuff.
I have an Extended Warranty policy, I have noting to worry about!
I purchased the vehicle based on the review by a prominent research firm. I am safe.
Dealers do their own inspection - why would I need to spend money on an independent inspection?
All vehicles are created equal
At the first sight, this statement seems to be perfectly valid. Indeed, in the free market, all manufacturers strive to create a better product to beat the competition. Or at least that's the way it's supposed to be. In real life, however, things do not work nearly as well or as logical as expected. Many - if not most - companies have realized that it is much cheaper to pay ten mil to a celebrity to promote a product - no matter how bad that product might be - than to invest billions in development and manufacturing improvements.
In other words, vehicles drastically differ in quality and dependability, and price does not appear to be a factor - see the
You get what you pay for misconception. We have seen cars that spent most of their lifetime in repair shops, and we have seen cars that successfully lived through a 300,000 mile mark with a single malfunction...
To demonstrate the difference between two vehicles, let's look at the following pictures. The right one depicts a belt that came from a $12,000 vehicle with 100,000 miles while the other one - from a $70,000 "luxury" European idol of off-road travel with a little over 40,000 miles on the odometer.
As a matter of fact, in case of this particular brand, we should expand the meaning of "off-road" term from deserts and mountains to dealerships and repair shops. Showing a picture of a vehicle next to an elephant most certainly does not make that vehicle more dependable but it does an excellent job in convincing the general public that nothing is better.
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You get what you pay for.
This one is closely related to the previous common mistake.
Question: how many independently failed components can a single vehicle have at one time? If we had not done that inspection, we would probably take this number quite skeptically - 18(!!!). Here is an excerpt from the report:
RIGHT CAM LOBES GROOVED, ROCKER ARMS - COATING PEALED OFF. ALL 8 INJECTORS - LEAKING. BOTH DIFFERENTIAL SIDE SEALS LEAKING. BOTH VALVE COVER GASKETS LEAKING, SHOP CLAIMS LEFT HEAD GSKT - NOT VERIFIED. LEFT OUTER TIE ROD END - LOOSE, IDLER ARM BUSHINGS - LOOSE, RIGHT SIDE BRAKE ROD REAR MOUNT LOOSE. BOTH FRONT SHOCKS LEAKING (NOT COVERED). This is NOT a Yugo - we are talking about a $70,000+ symbol of luxury most people also think "will run forever".
Here is another one:
LEAKS: BOTH HEAD GSKTS, INTAKE GSKT, BOTH VALVE COVER GASKETS, FRONT COVER, REAR MAIN/CROSS SEALS, POWER STEERING LINES AND LIKELY GEAR BOX, LEFT SWIVEL SEAL, BOTH SWIVEL BALLS CORRODED, TRANSFER CASE COVER GASKET LEAKNG, CUSTOMER ALSO COMPLAINED ABOUT INTERMITTENT LEFT FRONT HEADLIGHT INOP, STEREO OPERATION & SHIMMY IN FRONT END.
This masterpiece is a twin brother of the "off-road of the century" mentioned in the first misconception piece above.
But enough words - let's see some
pictures
of this "splendid" vehicle as one official called it.
That was pretty sad so let's have some fun. One of the technicians at the above mentioned brand dealership had the following banner on his toolbox:
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pertaining to oil, coolant, transmission fluid, brake fluid, gear lube and whatever else happen to be present in various systems of these vehicles.
Another technician from the same dealership at one point owned their product. The copy of his license plate is shown on the following photograph.
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Some may wonder why we picked that particular brand as a scapegoat. It just happens to be one of the most ridiculously bad, obscenely expensive and yet one of the most respected by the general public.
I got ABS - I can stop on a dime -
that's what a salesman will tell you when attempting to sell a vehicle with every option imaginable. First of all, what is ABS? This is a system normally incorporated into a regular brake system that prevents wheels from locking and, therefore, prevents the vehicle from skidding. Nothing is wrong with that. But as always, the devil is in details. First of all, actual stopping distance of a vehicle equipped with ABS is greater than that of the one that is not. In two words, the benefits of ABS can be outlined as follows: "it allows you to pick the target". For most drivers this function of the ABS system cannot be overestimated as long as they keep in mind that they'll need a few more feet to stop. According to statistical data, vehicles equipped with ABS are more likely to get in an accident than the ones that are not precisely because of the common misconception we are discussing.
It's been replaced (or repaired). Now it's like new!
Let's start with a little secret most people don't know about while those who do in most cases don't like to share. Replacement parts are rarely - if ever - new. Things like belts, bulbs, spark plugs, etc. are the exception. Engines, transmissions, alternators, starters, distributors, even brake cylinders, etc. are "rebuilt" or using a politically correct term - "remanufactured". What does that term mean? Nobody knows for sure. There are literally hundreds of companies in the "rebuilding" business. Some of them might be more thorough than others but the percentage of parts in the category DOA (Dead On Arrival) brings to a conclusion that it's likely that they all are the same due to the necessity to compete in the marketplace. You may wonder if dealerships sell the same kind of parts. Don't wonder - they do. You may also wonder why parts at the dealerships are so much more expensive that those at a local parts store. For no particular reason other than because once a vehicle is stuck at the dealership's repair shop, the owner has little choice.
In one case - a dealership was selling a distributor housing - yes, just an aluminum housing with the shaft and two bushings - for an older model for $118.00. According to the invoice, the dealer paid $18.00 to the manufacturer. The part looked like it had not even been "remanufactured" but rather cleaned and painted. In fact, it's less than likely that the manufacturers handle rebuilding of their own parts. They probably hire outside companies, most likely the same who serve independent parts stores - pay them absolute minimum... and we - the consumers - foot the bill. You may say that the parts have warranty. Yes, they do. It's just the fact that the warranty does not cover double or triple replacement labor charges, towing, inconvenience, etc. According to common practice, if a defective part is provided by a repair facility, that repair facility will replace it for free. With one "but", however. You will pay towing, rental, etc. Plus repair warranty, in the best-case scenario, covers up to 12 months/12,000 miles while most shops will only give you 3 months/3,000 mile warranty but at much lower original cost of repair. In other words, you still are paying - this way or the other - for these games.
Now, let's move from parts to workmanship. Once it's repaired, it's like new. Wright? Wrong. The owners of the vehicles the engines on the following
pictures
came from were mumbling the same mantra. The fact is, the dealerships in both cases had done MAJOR engine repair 4 (four) and 100 (one hundred) miles ago respectively, and were swearing to God that when the vehicles left, there was no noise, and denied warranty as well as any responsibility. So did the extended warranty companies. What happened? The dealer technicians had used improper cleaning disks in the process of previous repair which fact was confirmed by the oil analysis. Why they denied responsibility? Because the "failed" components were not directly involved in the original repair.
Hopefully, these examples demonstrate how completely unsubstantiated the idea of "...like new" is. Here is the general rule: there are thousands of "basic" operations involved in almost any repair work such as remove, clean, install, tighten, plug, connect, etc. The probability of an error is pretty high which means that in the process of rebuilding a major component like an engine or a transmission, a technician - even the best one - is likely to make mistakes. Some of these mistakes are minor, and will not show up ever, others will develop major problems like the ones shown previously. Even a connector that has not been plugged in all the way may cause water intrusion with subsequent necessity for a major repair. Factory assembly -even the worst one - is more error-free due to automated robotic lines, quality control, etc. than an "individual" workmanship.
Solution? Try to make sure that what you buy has no defects at least initially - that's why we are in business.
Routine oil changes are not enough… and other maintenance stuff.
Where did this idea come from? Of course, from the company that makes money on selling expensive "flushing" equipment to the dealerships who, in turn, sell you often unneeded procedure for well over $100. This brings us to a very complex topic of maintenance in general.
First of all, what is a "maintenance item"? Technically speaking, whatever is mentioned in the owner's manual in connection with a required replacement interval. We have already discussed the accessory drive belts in the "All vehicles are created equal" section of this page, how long they last and how long they SHOULD last. And yet they are not listed as items that have to be replaced after so many miles or years of service. At the same time, the factory warranty as well as the extended warranty will likely to include them into the "maintenance" category. This means that they are either not covered - in case of the extended warranty - at all or are covered for much shorter period of time (12,000 miles/12 months) in case of the factory new car warranty than other components. The same goes for some other items such as spark plugs…
But let's talk about oil changes. They definitely are required by all manufacturers, and "normal" intervals are 7,500 miles or 6 months. "Fast oil change shops" as well as self-proclaimed "America's favorite" claim that oil needs to be changed every 3,000 miles or 3 months whichever comes first.
Who is right or "America's favorite" vs. The Very Big Auto Manufacturer.
First of all, why oil needs to be changed. Yes, special additives used to protect bearings, pistons, etc. do wear out but the main reason is oil contamination from air pollution, moisture and most importantly - from combustion products that by-pass piston rings and enter the crankcase. Obviously, the more by-pass, the more enter. Also obviously, the larger the piston-to-cylinder gap AND the piston ring gap the more by-pass and… you got it - the more enter.
Just like in the case with the belts, different vehicles will need different oil change intervals due to the obvious reason - overall design and manufacturing quality, clearances, emissions control systems - everything effects oil longevity AND consumption. For instance, a normal piston ring gap is considered to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.020" while The Very Big Manufacturer had no problem making an engine with the "service" gap specification being 0.075". Why? Because… It seems like these guys make something, see what actually came from the production line, and declare it the "standard". Conventional logic says that it should be vise versa. This is precisely the reason why dealerships will not accept a warranty claim of oil consumption of 1 quart or even more per 1,000 miles.
You may wonder why they still require so rare oil changes. Good question. Here is how it works: there is a very important number used by the industry - how much it costs to drive a vehicle. Maintenance-related expenses add to this significantly. How to compete? Easy - print in the manual that it is a driver's responsibility to check oil level every time they pull to a gas pump. Needless to say, if you let it go unchecked for 7,500 miles, you may be easily 7.5 quarts down. Considering the fact that an average passenger vehicle engine takes 4-6 quarts of oil, the engine locks up and gets completely destroyed long before the next oil change is due. But the beauty part is that neither the manufacturer nor the extended warranty you might have will cover damage resulted from lack of lubrication. Remember: "it is the driver's responsibility…."? To make you feel better, let's specify how long it takes for an engine without oil to seize - anywhere from a few seconds to maybe a minute depending on RPM's and load. And once that happens, the entire engine must be replaced.
So, at this point it seems that the "America's Favorite Oil Change" is right. Right? Not entirely. Some engines do not exhibit any noticeable oil consumption for a required period of 7,500 mile. If you have one - you know. (If you don't, and it's still alive - you definitely know.) More than that, oil quality in these engines is still acceptable after so many miles. No matter how uncomfortable it feels to be in the same camp with the "favorite", we maintain the opinion that oil needs to be changed closer to 3,000 than 7,500 miles. It's just nice to have a choice rather than a necessity. Some people would be furious if they had to check oil every time they go to a gas station while others enjoy a little masochism. Nothing's wrong with that as long as the procedure is performed voluntarily and all participants enjoy it…
I have an Extended Warranty policy, I have noting to worry about!
The above statement is an extremely common thing to hear yet it has nothing to do with reality. For over fifteen years we've been doing inspections primarily for the Extended Warranty industry including really big names. In fact, so big that most people have an urge to remove their hats whenever these outfits are mentioned. It turns out that none of them - just like almost no business,
and NEVER a large business in particular - is around to keep us - the consumers - happy. They exist in order to make money. Generally, their attitude can be described as follows:
1. We have tens or hundreds of thousands of "customers" like yourself, and, therefore, could not care less.
2. If you don't like it - whatever "it" might be - sue us.
Those who ever tried to sue a large corporation can tell you that a well-known saying about fighting a pig in mud is a serious understatement compared to this.
We are sick of being screwed over on a daily basis. Yes, we have families just like everybody else and yes, we have obligations to support them - just like everybody else - but this is only one of two reasons we do what we do. The second reason is this: we actually do care about our customers.
Having all of the above in mind, let's get back to the Extended Warranty topic.
The first question is: do you need to have one? It depends. The most important aspect here is WHAT vehicle you drive. For some of them you better have a warranty, for some - don't waste your money.
Many times we had seen people literally crying over their repair bills. I.e. people WITH warranty. Why? First of all, no warranty covers everything. No matter what a salesman says. Also, the way the contract is written (by the corporate lawyers) guarantees all the rights to the company and strips as many as possible from you. They can install sub-standard quality or even used parts, and you are the one who will deal with the consequences.
For instance, we were involved in an inspection of an engine for a very well known "sensible" company. It was a legitimate failure - a connecting rod bolt broke and took the entire engine out. The policy stated that "internal lubricated components" were covered. Now, the question the adjustor had to answer was: is the bolt an internally lubricated component. From one point of view - yes because it is normally covered with oil. On the other hand - no because its functions are not related to lubrication. Guess which point the adjustor picked. And no court will help you regardless of the amount of time or money you spend.
Obvious steps to take:
1. Buy a vehicle of a brand that does not require regular repairs. This will allow you to avoid dealing with the extended warranty all together.
2. Have it professionally inspected - we are here to assist you in making the right decision from the technical point of view.
3. If - for whatever reason - you decide to purchase something that does break down, you better have an extended warranty policy. Yes, you still will be the subject of their rules and policies but in SOME cases, you will appreciate having it.
If you chose the No.3 scenario, you better think twice which policy to buy. Most dealers (see the Note on top of this page) will push you into an aftermarket company's hands, and this is the worst you can do. Why do they do that to you? Simple - aftermarket companies pay more commissions PLUS previously mentioned personal relationship between the dealer and somebody from the company.
In other words, Extended Warranty better be from the manufacturer.
Every single manufacturer has its own extended warranty plan. This plan covers more, and is always more generous than ANY aftermarket one. There is a number of reasons for that. In no particular order:
- Manufacturer uses its own parts and gives a limited mark-up to a dealer - usually 20% - while an aftermarket warranty pays about the same as you would. Sometimes they have minor discounts set up for large clients but nothing extraordinary. An aftermarket company will still pay twice or more of dealer cost for the parts.
- The manufacturer wants you to buy another vehicle from them, and you are unlikely to do so if you are not happy with the current one. As a matter of fact, the worse the product, the more generous the warranty.
- Aftermarket companies pay much more substantial commissions for the policy sale, and it comes - like everything else - out of your pocket so there is less left to cover repairs.
I purchased the vehicle based on the review by a prominent research firm. I am safe!
Just a reminder: in the late 80's, one of these "prominent" companies proclaimed Peugeot 405 as a "Car of the year". This fact alone should raise serious questions about the way they conduct their research or at least how the results are interpreted.
Here is a true story that hopefully will help to make the point.
Some time ago, one of these highly regarded reports that lists vehicles in order of quality placed two perfectly identical vehicles built at the same assembley line but carrying different name tags in the 2nd and 19th place.
It looked like a good opportunity to ask a question. We sent an email message without expecting to get a response. A few days later they actually did respond. They explained that the list is assembled from results of actual surveys filled out by the owners of all listed vehicles. Obviously, our question failed to raise eyebrows of the "researchers".
We pushed a little harder. The next message contained the following question: "...based on conventional logic, don't you feel that the actual quality of featured vehicles is secondary compared to perception and expectations of their respective owners?". That question remains unanswered until this day.
Dealers do their own inspection - why would I need to spend money on an independent inspection?
Really, you see the "Certified" signs in virtially every dealership. Do they mean anything? Yes they do, and yet consider the following facts:
- The dealership technicians are normally paid 1/2 hour to do a pre-purchase inspection. Our inspection takes well over two hours.
- After a technician completes the inspection, the list of defects is reviewed by the used car manager who determines what needs to be done, and what - just cleaned. Needless to say, every penny spent on repairs comes out of their profit and, therefore, they do absolute minimum. We, on the other hand, have no conflict of interests.
The above reasons are not the only ones but they should be sufficient to understand the point. But to make this more visual, we decided to include this real-life example. The pictures below depict a truck purchased 200 (!!!) miles prior to engine failure.
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